AGENDA
- Hourdequin
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Two puzzles (related)
- The just one person problem -- if a collective effort, is impactful, but my contribution is not, do I still have to contribute? e.g. buying an electric car
- The tragedy of commons -- if it would benefit me to add one more sheep to the shared pasture (while the negatives are shared), why shouldn't I do it?
In both cases--why should I do what's good at the collective level?
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Marion Hourdequin--philosopher specializing in both environmental ethics and classical Chinese philosophy
- Confucius -- Chinese philosopher 551-479 BC (before Socrates-Plato-Aristotle)
- extremely central to Chinese culture, to the present day
- the relational self--not I, but we--family, community, country, world
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| Hourdequin p. 454 |
- moral models
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Using Confucian ideas to address the "just one person problem"
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- choosing to buy an electric car--"I'm just one person, it's not going to make any difference"
- Hourdequin--
- I'm never just one isolated person
- I'm an influencer! And I'm influenced by moral models
- you make your decisions with others "watching"
- that can and should motivate me to buy the electric car
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Using Confucian ideas to address the tragedy of the commons
- Hardin: only solution is "mutual coercion mutually agreed upon" (laws)
- Hourdequin: laws can change, so it's important for there to be an ethical solution in addition to laws
- Hardin: ethics can't motivate people to act responsibly
- Hourdequin/Confucius: need to think about how individuals are affected by moral models/can be moral models
- The shepherd doesn't want to add an excess sheep because that's not what model shepherds do
- People in Europe don't want more than two children because that's not what model citizens do
- We aren't tempted to litter, because that's not what model citizens do.
- Driving small cars/electric cars has become the norm in other countries (Europe, maybe China) and can become the norm here without laws requiring it
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Discussion question
- Hourdequin says our purchasing behavior follows the Confucian model, even if we don't live in a Confucian society. We make choices to buy an electric or hybrid car, or other green technologies, because we're emulating people we see as moral models. She sees this sort of ethical foundation for buying behavior as more secure than laws, which can change, but recently a lot of people have stopped buying Teslas because they've stopped seeing Elon Musk as a moral model. Are moral models just as shifting as laws?
Feel free do discuss the discussion question OR anything else in the post OR ask a question.
Testing
ReplyDeleteMoral models can shift, but they are not necessarily as unstable as laws. While laws change through political processes, moral models, especially those rooted in relationships and community norms, often change more gradually and can have a deeper influence on daily behavior. Hourdequin, drawing on Confucian thought, argues that we are never isolated individuals. We act within networks of influence, shaping and being shaped by others. Though figures like Elon Musk may lose their status as moral models, shared ethical practices, like valuing sustainability, can endure beyond individual reputations. In this way, moral models grounded in collective values may offer a more lasting motivation for responsible action than laws alone.
DeleteMoral models do shift and are a factor in decision making for most people consciously or unconsciously. However I think that moral models are shifting more rapidly but there are more than one set of moral models. The two main moral models in the US are average republican and democrat ideals. Moral models for republicans have shifted dramatically to a MAGA Moral Model. The democratic one hasn't changed as much as the other one. I think that moral models shift less than laws but recently lots of outward change has happened to one of the common US moral models.
DeleteI believe that moral models can and do shift but typically at a much slower rate compared to laws which change with the implementation of new policy and government change. Our social code of ethics has changed over time and is drastically different from what it was say 20 years ago. A great example of this is Tesla and Elon Musk who in years past was viewed as a leader in the tech industry and someone who was making the world a better place but with his recent involvement in politics and support for President Trump the publics view has shifted. The things people consume often serve as representation of there values and beliefs.
DeleteI think that moral models are more shifting and that Teslas variation in support is a great example of this. Morality and ethics are far more subjective then not and are subject to change based upon whatever the current population deems necessary. Our societal code of ethics is in a constant state of editing and adjustment. At least laws (although based on morality) are more concrete and not as subject to change.
ReplyDeleteMoral models shift, often times more depending on the topic. When viewing the example of Elon Musk, moral models are shifting sporadically. The behavior of Musk is something that many zoom in on, with their perceptions shifting depending on recent history, comments, or actions. This is the case for almost every popular figure, as moral models are more susceptible to change at times due to their relation to specific figures and their behavior rather than objective laws.
ReplyDeleteI find that moral models tend to shift and are more susceptible to change than laws would be, as it is based on more of a subjective perception rather than a formal system. This interpretation of one's personal values may vary according to the situation, especially in the case of Elon Musk and Tesla, where a change in behavior may affect consumer behavior. As per Hordequin's discussion of Confucian Ethics being a claim of seeing ourselves as part of a collective network that influences one another, shaping their values as well, a shift in values exhibited by Musk can lead to a decrease in buying behavior.
ReplyDeleteI think that, especially in today's cancel culture, it is true that moral models are just as shifting as laws. In Elon Musk's case he was seen as a pioneer in the electric car industry, making electric vehicles cool and visually appealing. Many people associated him with an environmental cause because of this. In the past couple years Elon Musk has become more outspoken and more involved in politics. Because of how polarized our country is nowadays his association with the Trump administration has caused him to lose many customers. People see the brands they consume as an extension of their beliefs and moral compass so when an owner or ambassador does something that opposes those, many times they will no longer support that brand.
ReplyDeletePublic opinion can shift instantly, especially when it comes to figures like Elon Musk. At one point, Elon Musk was viewed as a symbol of innovation and environmental progress, and a lot of people probably bought Teslas because they admired what he represented or wanted to support what seemed to be a promising future with him. However, his public image has changed, and it has caused damage to his brand. This reflects how moral models can sometimes be just as unstable as laws, and does rely on public perception. Confucian ethics focuses on learning from those around us, but today our "role models" are often people we don't actually know personally, making their influence feel a lot shakier when an image changes.
ReplyDeleteMoral models are always shifting. I think the slightest wrong move can shift the support someone receives in an instant. I also think that more often than not, people are influenced by their friends, but also by their own values and morals. At one point, I remember people having a positive opinion on Elon Musk, but after everything that has happened and is going on, it is rare to see someone who supports him.
ReplyDeleteSince moral models are founded on a framework of human reasoning rather than a predetermined structure, they are, in my opinion, more flexible than rules, which are somewhat fixed and unchanging. As in the example of Elon Musk and Tesla, where a shift in behavior may alter the consumers, this hypothetical interpretation of one's morals can vary depending on the situation. According to Hordequin, who discusses Confucian ethics, we view ourselves as components of a relational and interdependent network, and as such, these values are also influenced and shaped.
ReplyDeleteI feel that laws shift less than moral models in practice. I think in some cases moral models can be quite stable considering that most people have a base standard of what is right and what is wrong. However, the real-world is often dynamic in who we view as moral models. In the case of Elon Musk, there been a clear shift in how people view him as a moral model. Laws may not be the preferred form of moral foundations but they are mostly stable in practice.
ReplyDeleteMoral models shift more than laws do. I think moral models don't shift in principle, meaning a moral model will always stand up for what's right and be a hardworking, dedicated person, but who those moral models are changes constantly. In the case of Elon Musk, he was viewed as a visionary for a long time because of his contributions to the electric car industry and space navigation and his overall intellect, but recently, he has become something different. He has changed his morals drastically, and I find that he is no moral model. While these models can become different people and can change constantly, laws are more likely to stay the same, or have very little changes.
ReplyDelete^Chyler Caldwell
DeleteMoral Models are always shifting. The public opinion and narratives are constantly changing, and that is often entirely dependent on the way that things are framed. Laws tend to be much less malleable, but people often face the consequences of these moral models much more often than the law - at least the average person does. We have to be interested in being a moral and good society, following the law seems to be the bare minimum.
ReplyDeleteMoral models are always shifting and sometimes one wrong move is all it takes to lose public support. People are very influenced by their own values and the opinions of the people around them. Elon Musk used to be admired for making electric cars popular and supporting sustainability, but his recent political ties to the Trump administration have caused a lot of people to stop supporting him. With cancel culture being so popular in this day, people often view brands as reflections of their beliefs, so when those behind the brand act against those beliefs, brand loyalty fades fast.
ReplyDeletehannah jackson ^
DeleteI believe moral figures are capable of shifting more so than laws. An old saying goes "don't make a statue of someone before they're dead" because people's morals can change quite drastically over time. Elon Musk is a great example and he isn't a special case, every single one of us are capable of changing our morals. Its also easier to change our morals than to change our system of laws, both take a decent amount of work and discourse but the amount required to change the law is much higher.
ReplyDelete